Return to Top
AAERT AAERT AAERT AAERT AAERT AAERT
- Your Association
An electrified nation —
6% of earth's land, 5% of its people, 22% of the electronics.
AAERT AAERT AAERT AAERT AAERT AAERT
does one size fit all?
Well, the short answer is No: one style of
note-taking is not necessarily suitable in
all E-Reporting situations.
A corollary of that is, not all notes are created equal, anyway.
Analog, digital, public-sector / private-sector work,
depositions, meetings, conferences — the list goes on.
What kinds of notes should I be taking? How
extensive should they be?
First of all, what will your notes
be used for?
Consider the different reasons why notes are taken, based on who the
primary "audio audience" is and how they will probably use the annotations.
Questions to be answered include: Will the
recording likely be transcribed? No?
Remember that perhaps 90% of all trials are never transcribed.
In most cases the recording is archived until — and if —
an appeal makes transcription necessary.
In deciding whether to appeal an UNtranscribed case, attorneys often obtain
an audio copy. Of course, they then like to see
extensive time-stamped digital notes which can be "clicked on" at various
points of interest to take them directly to the "real-life," "real-world"
testimony / colloquy they're concerned with. Thus, if the audio will
NOT likely be transcribed, take sufficiently detailed notes so someone scanning through
them can find different subjects quickly and efficiently. Here,
notes should resemble a comprehensive outline, somewhat like useful minutes
of a board meeting: what's going on here, and what's the topic?
Now back to the question: will the recording
likely, or even definitely, be transcribed? Yes?
Nearly all discovery depositions are transcribed. This means attorneys
will have a searchable transcript in hand. They may never consult the
underlying audio to listen to what they can so simply "search and read" for
themselves — unless, of course, a question arises as to transcript
accuracy, or the attorney wants to review HOW a witness answered, as well as
WHAT was said.
And here is an important thought about what transcribers
need to see in notes: generally, a transcriber is primarily interested
in speaker identifications, unusual terms or words, names, and acronyms.
[S]he will be listening to the entire assigned recording from beginning to end
anyway, and only occasionally may need to use the digital "click points" to
navigate to and fro within the audio file — transcribers have foot
pedals or keyboard controls for that.
Now a related question: do you know who will
perform the transcribing? Yes?
If you have worked with a transcribing associate for a period of time,
it may be that fewer, less detailed notes will be needed. You know what
[s]he regularly inquires about, and you've seen the product — in short,
you're well aware of what they know, and you know what information they
expect to get from you.
Of course, if you do not know who will eventually transcribe your recording,
it is best to enlarge your annotations, similar to notes taken for attorneys
in non-transcribed cases.
Still another question: how complex is the
proceeding? A two-voice deposition hardly needs every question / answer
separately speaker-ID'd — especially if the speakers' voices are
distinctively different. On the other hand, a nine-attorney
mêlée requires much more detailed speaker identifications.
Take the most careful notes of
all at the beginning of the case, and also as
each witness takes the stand. Why? That
cements the speakers' voices with their IDs. Further, for each
new witness it captures personal information which will never be
repeated: "I went to ABC High School, then worked for XYZ Company."
It is definitely NOT a best practice to say, "Oh, the transcriber
can always Google that." Why not? The witness may be referring to a school
that closed decades ago, or to a company which has long been out of business,
so Googling may be unfruitful. You are there, and you can get the information
directly "from the horse's mouth." With a bit of thoughtful care, you
can prevent unwanted (and unnecessary) [phonetics] in a
transcript which may well bear your name as the E-Reporter.
We suggest being flexible when it comes to what you annotate — take
those notes which are most needed. For instance, if you're having
trouble telling if a mush-mouth attorney is talking about
Exhibit A or Exhibit 8 . . . or the notorious M
v. N conundrum . . . it's likely those listening to the audio
may be equally unsure. The solution is in your hands: get it
straightened out and make a note about it!
Distinct benefits come from taking
fewer, but better, notes: you can be more attentive to what's
actually going on in the room, instead of being so swept up in detailed
"busy-work" annotations that when someone asks right out of the blue, "Ms.
Reporter, what's our next exhibit number?" you can actually answer, instead
of looking up in surprise and saying, "Huh?"
These are some considerations which properly affect how — and how
many — notes you take. Annotating according to the needs of the
case at hand can make your reporting jobs easier, and result in both
improved transcripts and a happier "audio audience."
Click here for examples of
reporter annotation styles, both recommended and otherwise.
Return to Top
A cautionary tale . . .
Once there was a skydiver who owned a wonderful parachute.
It opened beautifully when he jumped, and people watching on the ground
admired his bravery as he glided gracefully to a safe landing each and
One day a little girl came up to him and asked, "Do you have a backup
parachute?" At first the skydiver wanted to say, "Sweetheart, it's
just me and what you see" — but he could tell she was a bright
little girl, and she might not believe him. Besides, he DID have
a backup tucked carefully away, just in case. (He rarely talked
about it, lest people think he wasn't really such a brave jumper, after
all. And when he did speak of it, he made the backup sound like a
trivial afterthought of little or no consequence.)
So he said, "Yes — but it isn't a very good one. In fact, it's
rather second-rate, even unreliable. Of course, I never have to bother
with it, because a wonderful parachute like mine never fails."
Instantly the little girl said, "You mean parachutes never fail?"
"Well, some have, but not mine."
"What if one day it did? Why would you have a wonderful parachute, but
only a not-so-good backup one?" she continued. (The little girl was not
just very bright, she was very persistent.)
The skydiver decided to move along to another admirer who might not ask
so many questions. But he did resolve that he would stop belittling his
backup parachute, because the little girl was quite right: bottom line,
the thought of hitting the hard ground at 2 versus 200 miles an hour
made his backup chute just as important as the primary one, indeed.
Moral: If the chute fits . . .
Return to Top
C is for continuing education credits,
C is also for certifications, and
C is, last but not least, for conferences, where
members can earn both CEs and CER/Ts.
Continuing Education Credits at Conference
Our June Conference in Miami Beach included six credited presentations:
- Realizing Our Untapped Potentials
— Brian Blasko [Ohio]
- Healthy Hearing
— Gail Brenner, Au.D. [Pennsylvania]
- Gaining Expertise in Microsoft Word
— Karon Etienne [Maryland]
- Microsoft Word Lab
— Karon Etienne [Maryland]
- Healthy Habits for Court Reporters / Transcribers
— Jorge Santos [Florida]
- The Business of Dressing for Court
— Rodney Arbona [New York]
Records for those who attended and signed each session's registry
are now entered in our permanent database.
Although AAERT does not currently require CE credits to maintain
certified status, it may be that including your continuing education efforts
as part of a curriculum vitae or résumé is appropriate in
your employment situation.
for a recap of your CE activities.
Members' views on continuing education issues are important.
Direct your remarks, or suggestions for Conference agenda
topics which you believe would be appropriate for crediting, to AAERT's
Continuing Education Committee.
Return to Top
"If you're not thinking all the time about
making every person more valuable, you don't have a chance. What's
the alternative? Wasted minds? Uninvolved people?
force that's angry or bored? That doesn't make sense!"
— Jack Welch
Post-convention finds me absolutely depleted of energy. Thankfully,
the energy I receive from conventions isn't that quick-fix energy
bar. It's the special time-released blend of nutrients that gets
me through the rest of the professional year. At convention, it's not
unusual for us morning people to run into someone at 6:00 a.m. and start
talking about court reporting — like myself and a court administrator
who wanted to discuss E-Reporting
and Voice-Writing. Midnight each night found us still "talking shop" with
all our old and new friends from around the corner or across the globe.
I'm amazed at the things my associates are doing and excited to learn from
each of these amazing people.
Our speakers were dynamic and their topics diverse. Brian Blasko, our
keynote speaker from Columbus, Ohio, kicked off the conference. Be sure
to read Brian's book, Cruisin' Through Life at 35mph —
Rodney Arbona, New York, discussed dressing for court. In an age in which
casual dressing has filtered into the consummate formal room — the
courtroom — it was refreshing to listen to a gentleman extolling
the virtues of a more formal dress code. Our hands are instantly
associated with our profession, but what about our ears? Dr. Gail Brenner,
Pennsylvania, discussed the importance of protecting our ears, and many of
us took advantage of the independent hearing exams provided by Dr. Brenner.
Karon Etienne joined us for her third conference in a row. This year she
had two sessions, "Gaining Expertise in Microsoft Word" and a Microsoft
Word Lab. Karon's seminars are well attended and we appreciate the
partnership Karon has made with our Association these past years.
Jorge Santos, Florida, reminded us that our attention to professional
excellence is pointless unless we also take care of our bodies. I would
say, "even at a professional conference," but actually I think it is even
more important, in the midst of professional focus, to remember that our
health is equally important, and without it we can do nothing else.
Our international friends, Paul Royer and Neil Griffin from Australia and
Andrew Brown from Hong Kong, gave us a picture of the state of courts and
court reporting in various locations around the world. I left the session
sincerely touched by the challenges facing court administrators in remote
parts of the world, and thankful for the comparative ease in which we
Leaving Miami Beach, my motivation and desire for professional excellence
was at its peak. Turns out I needed it as I headed into Chicago for the
National Association of Court Management (NACM
— 2007 Conference. During the 2006 / 2007 year, a NACM Workgroup
produced a guide entitled "Making the Verbatim Court Record Mini Guide."
All three methods were discussed in detail: stenographic,
voice-writing, and audio / video recording. Unfortunately, our method was
exactly that, "audio / video recording," not electronic or digital court
reporting. As we know and have long touted, the quality of equipment,
microphones, and set-up is imperative in producing an excellent record;
however, the focus of the Workgroup's observations, as it related to our
method, was the technical standards and not the qualifications of the
electronic / digital court reporter.
The primary references to individuals associated with "audio / video
recording" were to the "ER monitor" and the "staff in the control room."
NCRA and NVRA certifications were included under their specific categories,
but not AAERT certifications under "audio / video recording." Under Section
2.1, Stenographic, the Reporter Certifications are described with this
parenthetical included: "(The associations for voice writers and
electronic recording (ER) monitors also conduct certification programs.)"
Perhaps I'm ignorant of this "national ER monitor association," or perhaps
this is a generic reference to The American Association of Electronic
Reporters and Transcribers, Inc.
"Making the Verbatim Court Record Mini Guide" was prepared by the NACM
Workgroup which consisted of members from across the country. It is
written to address court managers' duties and responsibilities as they
relate to managing the verbatim record. I don't feel
adequately reflected, and I blame myself and the rest of the AAERT
membership. No one is going to do this job, but us. Please do your part
and talk to everyone you know about the importance of having certified
court reporters and transcribers — whether two individuals or one
individual doing both duties.
The fact that the court recording duties do not fall under the
jurisdiction of court reporting staff in many places in this country is
obvious when you read the NACM Mini Guide. It stings. The truth hurts.
Now, what are we going to do? If your state does not have active
representation in AAERT, please educate those at home. If you have
connections in another state which does not have active representation
in AAERT, please "start talking." There are still many states who don't
know who we are.
Our AAERT pamphlets and official communications and connections work —
to a point. But please never forget AAERT is
spelled Y-O-U. And one
conversation Y-O-U engage in
will have far more impact than a hundred letters sent from our corporate
So, my comrades, our work is cut out for us. Please be sure, when you
talk to attorneys, judges, and court managers, that you regularly and
clearly define our profession. Be consistent and persistent. If you're
doing your job, you've already earned the professional distinction and
recognition — NOW make sure they know our language and are not
easily befuddled with mixed lingo when speaking with other court managers
and judges. It's clearly a communications issue, and the challenging
hurdle we face when talking to others within the court culture across
this nation is that we use the same terminology but oftentimes with
different definitions, or sometimes we use different terminology but
actually mean the same thing.
On a more positive note, AAERT was proactive. We were the only court
reporter association represented in the Exhibit Hall at NACM's 2007
National Conference. Kimberly Mc-Cright, Vice-President, and I had the
opportunity to speak to countless court administrators from across the
country. Each and every conversation was a positive one when it came
to E-Reporting. For the leaders
before us who spent years "defending" instead of "conversing," thanks for
laying out the cushy carpet for us — What a pleasure to
speak to these people of like mind!
We've come a long way, AAERT. Your parents raised you to be Somebody.
And Somebody needs to get out and do this work — so there's a lot
of work for Y-O-U to do!
Return to Top
Good work in progress in Virginia . . .
Neal Gross, CER, has very capably represented AAERT on the
Virginia Supreme Court's committee to develop a monitoring system for
court reporters within the Commonwealth. Proposals have ranged from
a licensing board to a review board, and, most recently, to establishing a
public registry of certified reporters.
In the current version, unveiled in early July, the operative word
is certified. The Committee is now proposing to grant
equal recognition to certifications obtained via all
three reporting methods' national
Voice-Writing, and Stenography.
And the results are in . . .
In 2005, to assist federal judges of the Western District of Washington's
Bankruptcy Division in deciding whether to upgrade
to E-Reporting, simultaneous
reportage was performed by practitioners of two methods: Stenography
and E-Reporting. After
comparing the transcribed results, the en banc panel voted to
install a digital system.
Now that there is a significant track record upon which to base an
opinion, we asked Curtis Udy, of court administration, what the
Division thinks about digital reporting technology. He replied on
"We went live on our digital recording system in March of '05 and, aside
from a few hiccups here and there, it's been a resounding
success. Chambers' staff are happy to have access to
play audio on demand. We provide the transcription
firm with [access] into our electronic case filing system and they upload
completed PDF transcripts electronically. It's reduced a lot of paper
and made access to the record easier for everyone."
AAERT joins Intersteno
Intersteno is the European federation of information
processing associations and court reporters / transcribers,
established in 1887 and still going strong. In July, AAERT's
membership was approved by a vote of Intersteno's General Assembly at its
biennial meeting in Prague. Intersteno next meets in 2009 in
here to view the Intersteno website.
There doesn't have to be a shortage . . .
July 23, 2007's issue of The National Law Journal includes an
article, "Dramatic drop in court reporters causes alarm,"
attributing the last few years' declines in stenographic vocational school
enrollments as partly due to the length of time needed, often two to four
years, to become even marginally proficient in typing Stenograph machine code.
Still not 'getting it':
The article refers to Steve Leben of the Kansas Court of Appeals,
president of the American Judges Association, as having "scoffed at the idea
of replacing court reporters with electronic recording equipment." He
is quoted as adding, "'Having a human being for the court reporter is
extremely valuable'" – to alert the judge when someone is speaking
too softly, for example – "'the way a live court reporter can.'"
AAERT's Bill Wagner was briefly interviewed for the article by NLJ staff
writer Stacey Laskin. He made the point that far too many, like
Judge Leben, still do not realize that E-Reporting
is NOT unattended machinery whirring away in the corner.
reporters become fully proficient relatively quickly. Once this is
more widely understood, misdirected fears of endless future court reporter
shortages will be greatly allayed.
"Play It by Ear"
is a Scientific American article reviewing Japanese research on a
speech-recognition system which identifies and separates
up to three simultaneous speakers — to a certain extent,
that is. Until now, the task of quickly and effortlessly sorting a
barrage of incoming sounds, called the cocktail party effect,
has seemed insurmountable, with only real people's brains able to accomplish
But don't think this is ready for prime time! Although the system
does not require advance voice-training, it does
need eight microphones, and takes a couple of seconds to selectively mask
the flood of overlapping sounds and then to compare each voice against an
electronic dictionary-cum-grammar book. So far, it comprehends with
70 percent accuracy — about the same level as someone with a
significant hearing impairment at a — well, at a noisy cocktail
An impressive start, but no cigar — at least in the foreseeable future,
and especially in view of the high level of accuracy required for an official
court record. — See Scientific American,
August 2007, page 28.
Chicago stenographic reporters unionize
with unintended consequences?
Organizing within a traditional labor union can bring measurable,
appropriate, and often long-overdue employee benefits —
but can also carry risks. (Just ask railroad workers whose past fixation
on "job security at all costs" so far outweighed real-world realities that
it added a word to the language, featherbedding,
and contributed to the disintegration of passenger rail service in the
That said, Cook County stenographic reporters voted in February to accept a
contract under the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers' (IBEW)
umbrella, and final adjustments were completed in July. This may make
it difficult, if not impossible, for courts to upgrade to more economic,
less labor-intensive digital systems. The long-term effects on already
burdensome legal costs and crowded dockets remain to be seen.
Return to Top
The Nature of Words
I know all of us must have in our minds a list of tricky words,
words that appear to mean something other than what they do. I recently
pondered gainsay, which would appear, to me at least, to mean the
opposite of what it actually does mean: gain means increase,
doesn't it? Actually, gainsay means to
deny, to oppose — in this case, the "gain"
coming from the old English for against:
Then there's meretricious, at best insincere,
and looking so much akin to our valiant meritorius,
worthy of praise. Both come to us
from the Latin root merere,
to earn. But meretricious
comes by way of meretrix, prostitute, and
meritorious by way of
meritorius, earning money.
I've noticed some authors get a kick out of the double-take they expect of
readers who read titivate as titillate. Origins of
titivate aren't clear; it appears to have arisen in the late 18th,
early 19th century, possibly as a combination of "tidy" plus "elevate"; it
means to spruce up. Titillate, on the other hand, goes
back much farther, to the Latin titillare,
In the late '80s a store in Austin selling fans and lights named itself
Ennervations, and I couldn't repress a shudder every time I drove past
that place. I imagine they had used a mix of "energy" and
"innovation." Don't they know, I was likely to preach to whomever was
in the car with me, that enervate means to weaken, from the
Latin enervatus? Just the idea of such
thoughtless misuse of the language was enough to enervate me!
Laurel H. Stoddard, CET
On The Record Reporting & Transcription, Inc.
Return to Top
TheRecord Player 4.2
is the most recent release of FTR's
free transcription software.
Like its predecessor, Version 3.3, Player 4.2 is designed to play all
FTR audio / video formats, old and new, yet also provide full transcribing
facilities for many other standard formats, including WAV,
MP3, and WMA files.
New features include:
You can reconfigure your foot pedal so the back-space is on the left or
right — up to three arrangements. Minimizing Player to a
"small view" with time / channel indicators, on top of your work but not
interfering visually, is another nice feature.
Full Windows Vista compatibility
Direct playback from remote FTP sites
Ability to switch "skin" appearance between TheRecord and
To download your free Player, click this button:
Return to Top
A reminder: Pengad continues to offer a significant
AAERT members receive their
lowest catalog pricing on most
court reporting supplies, regardless of quantity.
This means we do not have to buy in bulk to save.
Just identify yourself as an AAERT member when ordering, and you
automatically receive this consideration on your purchases of
- Transcript covers
- Laser supplies
- Data accessories
- Stock forms
- Mailing supplies
- Index tabs, and much more.
800 631-6989 — fax 800 631-2329
Note: Promotional items, billheads /
invoices, business cards, flat or raised print stationery, and printed
mailing envelopes are not included in this benefit.
Return to Top
announces a membership benefit
at AAERT's June Conference
Bill Taylor of Veri-Core, a Conference Gold
Sponsor and long-term supporter
of E-Reporting, announced at their
annual Monday evening Conference reception in Miami Beach that the new firm
will be offering a new membership benefit to AAERT members:
free Veri-Scribe II digital recording software,
via a direct download link from our Members Area.
The program will be an introductory one-channel version of Veri-Core's
totally new digital recording, playback, and annotation system —
which in its full commercial edition records up to eight channels.
This will be an interesting members' benefit, useful in a number of
settings. The target date for this release is early September
2007 — an announcement will appear on line, so watch for it!
P.O. Box 489
Millersville, Maryland 21108-0489
Return to Top
Board of Directors / Officers, 2007 - 2008
Back row, left to right:
Bill Wagner, CET (Washington),
Luis Gomez, CCV (Flordia);
Margaret Morgan, CERT (Minnesota);
Jan Harris, CERT (Wisconsin);
Kimberly McCright, CET**D (Arizona),
Front row, left to right:
Gail Malm Armstrong, CERT (Indiana);
Gillian Lawrence, FPR, CERT (Florida),
Sherry Simmons, CER (Delaware),
|AAERT's Board of Directors has historically numbered
seven, although our bylaws permit the board to set its range between seven
and eleven members. At Conference in Miami Beach, on June 24th the
board voted to invoke that bylaw, thus permitting
Gail Malm Armstrong to become a director, yet without curtailing the
volunteer services of any current member. Welcome, Gail!.
Immediately after each annual business meeting the board chooses its own
officers. For the 2007 - 2008 term, our corps of officers remains the
same — see photo caption, left.
Four board positions come due for election in
June 2008 at our 15th Annual Conference, in San Antonio, Texas.
If you would like to serve in this capacity, contact any officer to get
information on what a position entails.
Remember that AAERT is a member-driven association: join us to
help advance E-Reporting!.
Return to Top
Thank you to our 14th Annual Conference sponsors
Click on a sponsor's logo or company name for
J & J Court Transcribers, Inc.
Hamilton, New Jersey
Harris Reporting Company
On The Record Reporting
& Transcription, Inc.
Neal R. Gross & Company
& Transcription, LLC
Reed Jackson Watkins
Huntington Court Reporters
Return to Top
The future of our certification examinations:
testing between now
and Conference 2008 —
and thereafter . . .
AAERT's certification examinations began in
1996, when an independent third-party consulting firm reviewed the program
elements and administered tests in selected cities nationwide.
Over these eleven fruitful years, even as test materials were enlarged,
fees have remained the same, pegged at $50.00 per examination.
Now, more and more firms and jurisdictions are either requiring CER/T
status or expressing a decided preference for certified
associates / staff. Thus, responsibilities associated with
the program are increasing, and it is time to accommodate this growth
by taking necessary steps to ensure CER, CERT, and CET status can be
earned by as many eligible and qualified applicants as may apply.
So what does the future hold?
At its June meeting in Miami Beach, the Board decided to
strengthen our certification program by:
Those testing at any AAERT-authorized site now, up to and including
the cycle at our 15th Annual Conference next June in San Antonio,
may do so at the current per-exam fee of $50.00.
- Re-mastering reporter practical exam DVDs,
which test E-Reporter note-taking skills, and
- Setting test fees at a more appropriate
level to fully cover administration costs.
After 2008's Conference exams, the test fee
for either E-Reporter or
E-Transcriber will be
Return to Top
Newly Certified Members, Second Quarter 2007
The most recent cycles in AAERT's ongoing certification program were held in
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on April 26th
and in Miami Beach, Florida, in conjunction with our 14th
Annual Conference on June 24th.
Congratulations and our very best wishes to these candidates who earned their
initial or upgraded certifications!
Tina T. Bosse, CERT*D — Angola, Indiana
Ouida Carpenter, CER**D — Georgetown, Delaware
Scott R. Carpenter, CER**D — West Palm Beach, Florida
Christine F. Clayton, CERT*D — Tucson, Arizona
Diane P. Devine, CERT*D — Ocala, Florida
Traci Dawn Esposito, CET — Jackson, New Jersey
Kathleen J. Fletcher, CET**D — Sanford, Florida
Crystal Gavidia, CER**D — Wilmington, Delaware
C. Lynn Gilstrap, CERT*D — Brooksville, Florida
Paulita E. Kundid, CET**D — Daytona Beach, Florida
Rose Marie Norton, CET**D — Pineville, Louisiana
Louise Pomar, CERT*D — Bunnell, Florida
Cynthia Ann Sutphin, CERT*D — Vienna, West Virginia
Karen Beth Vinton, CER**D — Hawley, Pennsylvania
LaKeisha Walker, CER**D — West Palm Beach, Florida
For test-related information, contact:
Steve Simon, CERT
A general discussion of the program is at
Return to Top
A warm welcome to our new members
since the last issue of The Court Reporter
AAERT members can go to our on-line Directories by clicking
Professional Court Reporting and Transcription Services
Cynthia L. Adkins
Plantation Key, Florida
Patricia F. Brown
Canandaigua, New York
Penny Brooks Bynum
Carrie Sue Dunn
Fort Gratiot, Michigan
Peggy Marie Edens
James Anthony Gee
Brian J. Killgore
Joanne Marie Knaap
Keswick, Ontario, Canada
Paulita E. Kundid
Daytona Beach, Florida
Kasey Jean Merlington
Key West, Florida
Rose Marie Norton
Loreen Alison Parsons
Scarborough, Ontario, Canada
Litchfield Park, Arizona
Zandra Lashan Raines
Sandra Ann Ring
Live Oak, Florida
Lisa Marie Taylor
Ormond Beach, Florida
Karen Annette Wable
Return to Table of Contents
Contact the Editor
The Court Reporter is published by
The American Association of Electronic Reporters & Transcribers, Inc.
All rights reserved, whether electronically or in print. © 2007.
Gillian Lawrence, FPR, CERT, President
AAERT / 23812 Rock Circle / Bothell, WA 98021-8573.
AAERT AAERT AAERT AAERT AAERT AAERT